This is an interview with Clifford T. Chieffo, Professor of Fine Arts Emeritus at Georgetown University, visiting Professor. NC State. Mr. Chieffo was kind enough to give an interview on Italian culture, and his perspective on Federico Fellini as viewed by a first-generation American of Italian immigrants. Again, thank you Don. C for your knowledge and your time.

From the perspective of a first-generation American of Italian immigrants, what things stick out the most when watching a Fellini film?

The most prominent comparison and contrast is Rome vs. Naples. In Italy (and most other countries, like the USA, anyplace in the south (Sicily is not even officially Italian that’s why they started their own law ––“The Familia” after being occupied by so many countries/cultures over the centuries) by the north’s mind-set, were the lower class, less educated, culture, but with the best loyalty, food and wine!

Ex. In 8 ½ the obvious Napolitano character playing the lighting crewmember (Gaffer) in the film has his little dancing part in the dream, he’s snubbed and patronized as Fellini leaves the abandoned set.

Therefore, Fellini's films taught me the difference between the north and the south. La Dolce Vita (1960) was the first view into the glamor, glitz, and sex of the well-off Romans and celebrities. The cars, the Vespa, the “fountain,” love, and the decadence––on and on! To think that a Black&While film could be a real documentary, a dream revisited and an unpredictable story about love and death.

Thus, It was for me as a visual artist person a life-changing experience. Nothing like that was ever viewed in America. Post-grad my older brother bought a Vespa, went in the army for 2 years, and off I went to court my future wife, “dressed to kill” [see below]

2. What makes Fellini's films so very Italian? besides the obvious fact that the films are Italian: aspects, cultural angles, etc.

Let’s look at 8 ½, this is longish. Now put yourself in my shoes as a young “avant-gardist” 16mm B&W filmmaker, along with one of my NY friends.

but more importantly, as the official liaison between Warner Bro. and Georgetown University in the making of the Exorcist on campus, here’s how this matters in my view.

Well, working with Billy Friedkin every day for 2 months on set, decisions by the minute, (that’s a $10,000 an hour Warner Bros cost) he was exactly like the Fellini character who was constantly besieged by the budget guy, the script, lighting, set designers, etc. In 8 ½ Fellini gives a view of how that was a huge distraction, and more importantly, how he never spoke an answer

Most importantly, (I think) coming to the realization that he was transferring (no brick and block church and rules) from his childhood flash-backs of Catholic teaching, guilt, and afterlife destiny; is why this film was his 8th and ½ film in which he would define his career.

The movie itself, for the most part, is like a SPA (probably with steam baths, mud baths saltwater baths) where you would drink, in Fellini’s case, lots of Holy Water, and other concoctions to “clean out” your system. Mostly to do business and free yourself from the day's worries. However not for Fellini! Being a celebrity, a powerful film Director and “user” of women, adultery, for his delight, and men at his “beck n’ call” for funding and ideas. (which he mostly ignored).

3. Any thought on Fellini’s use of dream Sequences?

This is the crux of the movie’s use of Black/White lighting at ground level.

Let me begin with editing techniques: If I remember correctly, there were only “cuts” and no “fade to Black cuts” but straight “jump cuts.” No dissolves, etc.

Now here’s my take on how he created the “Dream” sequences.

The viewer will notice that even though the SPA set didn’t change the light staging; no overhead lights, just floor level lights which is more surreal than natural daylight high-level lighting, to control the impact of the figures who went from well-lit to black SILHOUETTES, with well-lit action scenes behind the silhouettes.

At this point, I’ll interject Plato’s analogy of the cave shadows. Fellini’s dilemma in 8 ½ is “Does he struggle toward the “light” (his youth) Or be content with the ‘shadows’ (middle age)?

A well-lit past action scene (his youth?) next:

Now somewhere here in his childhood dreams of the Catholic school classroom and his fascination with the neighborhood sex-uninhibited-exhibitionist-dancer willing to teach and “perform” for the young Fellini who saw more in her than just “La Puttana.” Fellini the actor shows an empathetic response to her rather than the Catholic view of a sinful degenerate.

That aspect of his sexual addiction is always in the foreground of most scenes for example, the large marble female figure on a high marble base in the SPA where at first we only see the legs and later the full figure to stimulate the libido.

I remind you that I only recently saw the movie once, so my concepts may be OK but not the sequence of the scenes…and saw the original in 1963 when I was 26 and out of grad school.

Let’s start with Ingmar Bergman’s (I’m convinced) influence on Fellini:

Remember this scene in 8 ½ In his FINAL vision of his film?

Pure Bergman in Seventh Seal (1957)!

And in 8 ½ we need to think about his wife and his girlfriend, or was she her alter split view of herself? and was it his wife in the sex scene or the alter ego woman as an example. Or did she exist at all?

Now before you hang-up on me (ha!) consider this Fellini scene: The three characters, himself and the two women are seated in the patio

/CUT/ He turns to watch his mistress singing ––– the other one, or two women are gone! Going back home. HUH?

Then - /CUT/ to Guido by himself.

And thus, for my answer, I turn to Bergman’s PERSONA (1966)!

Liv alone on an island to rest and welcomes Bibi ––– or does she?

Persona (1966 film) - Wikipedia

An interesting tidbit: In Greek drama, persona came to mean a character, separate from an actor. Bergman often used the theatre as a setting in his films. Elisabet is a stage actress and, according to Singer, is seen in "mask-like makeup" suggesting a "theatrical persona".